Bluepaper Questions

General Discussion
#42

They are not circulating as in they cannot be bought sold or moved. But they are circulating for the incentives (dividends) in that they give the owner incentives since they are locked in her/his account/address

I was hoping @dandabek might give his view on a small change to the procedure and make the permanently locked (burned) coins be available for unlocking by the owner after a set # of blocks have been mined. Say 12 months worth of blocks. This way we do not see a growing overall number of coins locked which after 10 years surely will be quite significant. By making the period say 12 months it also stops spamming. Even 6 months (perhaps 3 months) would prevent significant spamming.

#43

I agree, if someone no longer can access their wallet they shouldn’t be receiving dividends

#44

I just picked a number out of the air, but a more rational number would be 100USD. that’s the max valuation at which it’s still possible to transact 0.01USD given the 0.0001 limitation. The billion coins won’t exist at the outset; according to the paper that number is projected 20 years after mining begins. At the end of year one the supply would be 25,750,000 * 100USD = 2,575,000,000. That’s still a lot, but what if it becomes a problem due to valuation? I wonder if it’s something that can be changed later?

#45

Good point.

You could make a new address or wallet and move all your coins (except the permanently locked ones) to the new wallet then sell the wallet with the locked coins to someone else. They they can get the incentives (dividends)

But the coins are still permanently locked and would there be buyers for that otherwise empty wallet? And then they have to consider you still know the keys for it.

I’d say there would be very few who would buy such a wallet and likely to give you less than if you just kept it for yourself.

1 Like
#46

I’ve read the bluepaper here and I have a question regarding the creation of Title Markets. It may be a discrepancy in the paper, or I may simply be misunderstanding something.

pg. 5 of the bluepaper states, under the “Costs of establishing a Title Market” section :

The cost of establishing a Title Market and becoming its curator requires a Basic Account to pay and burn 200 Safex Tokens at the time establishment.

However, pg. 6 states, under the “Users of the marketplace can establish
a profile via a Safex Account” section :

A Basic account may not create a Title Market.

This seems to involve a contradiction if “establishing” a Title Market and “creating” one mean the same thing.

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#47

I believe it’s a bad choice of words on pg.6

My best guess is that it was meant to say ; “A Basic account does not have to create a Title Market.” or; “A Basic account may, , , not choose to create a Title Market.” or; “A Basic account may choose not to create a Title Market.”.
Again, my guess.

But I am pretty sure everything on pg.5 stays unaffected and true.

2 Likes
#48

Because the BluePaper is almost 2 years old, I wonder how much of the following is still a part of the envisioned minimum viable product, given the current state of development. If someone could either verify that the below is still relevant and/or point me to newer documentation, that would be helpful.

I’ve identified 10 business problems which could be mitigated by the use of the safex blockchain in e-commerce applications, with the following bluepaper quotes describing the proposed methodology to be implemented in order to mitigate those problems.

  1. Problem : Consumers cannot efficiently mine cryptocurrencies
    Proposed solutions :

“[The] Safex Cash…mining algorithm…is based on the CryptoNight algorithm…Therefore, general purpose computers such as the average home computer and at best graphic card arrays will be efficient at mining Safex Cash.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 4

  1. Problem : Businesses which accept cryptocurrencies are subject to offsite clearing issues
    Proposed solutions :

“Safex Blockchain addresses this by providing a fully functional marketplace mechanism where people are capable of offering their goods or services directly on the Blockchain and all payment clearing and processing takes place atomically via blockchain transactions.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 5

  1. Problem : Consumers cannot securely make cryptocurrency payments
    Proposed solutions :

“The advancement permits fewer risks in service breach that leads to theft and compromised payment systems involving cryptocurrencies. Safex Marketplace eliminates the web server altogether because all payment and clearing is carried out cryptographically over a decentralized network.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 5

  1. Problem : Businesses cannot easily convert cryptocurrency to FIAT
    Proposed solutions :

“No longer do people need to host complex services to provide purchasing mechanisms for cryptocurrencies.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 5

  1. Problem : Consumers cannot easily specify dispute resolution methods
    Proposed solutions :

“People can interact with the marketplace term agreements. Within a term agreement are the parameters by which a transaction will be fulfilled. Among the attributes include: arbitration…”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 5

“Curators can also set arbitration rules, and the forms of escrow that are permitted on their market segment.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 5

  1. Problem : Consumers cannot easily receive compensation
    Proposed solutions :

“The cost of establishing a Title Market and becoming its curator requires a Basic Account to pay and burn 200 Safex Tokens at the time establishment. The curator of the market can set a fee for utilizing their segment and they will earn the fee from all sellers within their marketplace.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 5

  1. Problem : Consumers cannot easily curate sellers
    Proposed solutions :

“Both buyer and seller can award a reputation score between 1-5 as well as a text comment.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 6

  1. Problem : Consumers cannot easily limit the use of their data
    Proposed solutions :

“It is also possible that users will want to privately share their marketplace listings. In order to facilitate this, users can encrypt their marketplace listing.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 6

“The conditions and descriptions of the product or service remain encrypted via PGP.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 6

“…the use of Ring Confidential Transactions…means that when spending to a purchase agreement or sending a transaction the recipient has no knowledge of the purchasers other balances and has no knowledge of the purchasers spending habits.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 7

  1. Problem : Businesses using blockchains can encounter spam attacks
    Proposed solutions :

“…to exercise activities over the blockchain…depends on the blockchain not being constrained and prone to spam attacks due to full blocks as is the case with Bitcoin.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 7

“The Safex Blockchain employs a dynamically adjusting block size limitation so that as block utilization increases so does the limitation…”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 7

  1. Problem : Consumers cannot secretly communicate while using a service
    Proposed solutions :

“Anyone can store a PGP key in the Safex Blockchain for a fee. Therefore, messages can be encrypted using the identifier of the PGP key and stored in the blockchain for retrieval in the future by the recipient.”
– https://safex.io/SafexBluePaperJan3.pdf, pg. 7

3 Likes
#49

This was the case until around August: perhaps someone/group figured out how to break the mining algorithm and we were ASIC mined from mid Aug until yesterday. Now anyone is competitive if they have a modern CPU.

It’s a bit arbitrary but we are ~95% of what is written in the blue paper. A comprehensive document will be released soon, likely after the testnet of the marketplace: testnet 3.

#50

I saw that on the latest news - you just now implemented a different ASIC-resistant algorithm. cool, I hope it works. Bitcore ran into a similar situation when their TimeTravelTimes10 algorithm got broken.

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#51

That’s a really nice summary and outline of the problems and Safex’ approach of solutions!

Let me add this to Nr. 7 (it goes somehow hand in hand):

Buyers have no guarantee that sellers are reputable.

On the safex marketplace, product/seller ratings can only be submitted from buyers who purchased on-chain. If a seller wants to make fake ratings, he has to buy the product off himself on-chain and has to pay 5% of the product’s price to the network. Therefore, the submission of fake ratings comes with a price and the number of fake ratings will be low. This goes the other way round, too. Buyers will not be able to easily rate down sellers without reason.

ad 6 and 9:

Safex Tokens will not be burned but locked for a certain number of blocks within the creation of accounts/title markets. A final burn of these coins would shrink the supply very fast depending on the number of users. Spamming the network by creating fake accounts/title markets should be lowered this way.

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#52

We will always focus the algorithm for mining to target commodity CPUs found in average households.

Yes, as soon as you have a sale: the coins are with you immediately. Unless some future escrow feature is utilized at the time of the sell offer is created or later updated to utilize.

People no longer need to set up complex infrastructure to manage their crypto payments. The blockchain manages all of clearing.

The protocol is designed to be open ended to enable escrow systems and variants.

Using encryption is enabled at a data cost to store the key information and encrypted data if so desired. During account creation, description update; likewise with sell offer listings, and editing.

3 Likes
#53

thanks @cryptooli and @dandabek - I appreciate the clarifications. I’m also pleased to note that I am able to quote individual answers in the safex forum without logging in (for example - by including a link like this : https://forum.safex.org/t/bluepaper-questions/4198/50) in an external document or web page. This makes it much easier for people to follow sources when I cite them without them needing to have an account to read the source. If I end up including this info in a book or article, would you mind if I quoted either of you?

2 Likes
#54

I don’t mind, always glad to talk about Safex.

@cryptooli your call :wink:

1 Like
#55

I don’t mind either - happy to be quoted! In case I make false statements, Dan or someone else will correct me and I can edit the post.

@dandabek following this discussion, something else comes to my mind: Will there be a total of three rating systems then? Seller, buyer, product itself?

1 Like