I would encourage you to further research that subject matter. As it is much better documented that every terror attack since 911 has been carried out by It’s own nations hand. Not a single event in two decades, where the homelands government had no involvement. Terrorism is nothing more than a tool governments use to control weak minded individuals. As a military veteran and “living man” not bound to any corporate masters anymore. I assure you that statism is nothing more than glorified Stockholm Syndrome.
This statement couldn’t be further from the truth. As the most corrupt system ever invented to enslave man is a democratic republic.
The most destroying regime’s in history have all been built and carried out by law abidding tax payers. John Adams (Give me liberty, or give me death) said that the declaration of independence was more enslaving to man than a king. Yet he partook in the event. If you ever wish to know who your masters are. Find out who your not aloud to criticize.
As governments around the world are collapsing. I think the bigger picture here is that when truly free market is introduced mankind thrives. Look at the infrastructure our governments have poorly managed in the corporate sector vs the innovations of textiles or automotives in the private sector.
I think the safer assumption to make given the current state of our world is that these tyrannical nations. These plantations we live on are losing control. These are not well oiled machines, they are run by complete and utter morons who obviously have no idea what their doing. Our top level government officials spend almost half of all their time on the phone begging for money. Just to stay in their current position. That is their only focus. So having an unregulated market to fall back on will be more important than ever in the next 10 years.
With this information i see Safex as a means to an end of regulations and tyrannical governments control of manipulated markets. For one group or party to force another group to do anything is fascism and is against the whole idea of a free market. If Safex is being developed the way i “think” it’s being developed. Anonymity will be the largest focus in protecting the financial well beings of merchants, distributors and purchasers. This will mean that if something were to violate a community guidelines. It would be very easy to just shut that entity down and be done with it.
However, putting the cart before the horse with speculation as to what or who those entities are shouldn’t be a concern. As more than likely whatever system in place would flag such things and remove them before they even existed in a sense. However, that should be in extreme case scenario’s only. To which i would not consider firearms or drugs to be one of such scenario’s. Unless of course you can show me any study on the planet which concludes that more firearms in any community has led to a rise in violent gun crimes (not a single case in history). We have the FBI website statistics to thank for that one. As for the second part. I’d really love to know the difference between the private drug corporate monopoly that kills 10x more people every year than the US war machine selling Buprenorphine and Oxycontin. As oppose to John down the street selling heroin on the corner or on the internet. Take a look at Portugal is you wish to see
the results of a free drug market and the benefits it brings to the communities.
This is exactly what im talking about. Im not suggesting we hunt the people down with pitchforks, just that they should not be permittted to trade in the Marketplace if what they are selling derives directly from the abuse, incarceration or exploitation (physically or financially) of another human being. I have not suggested, nor would I ever suggest, comprimising the anonymity of the system.
EDIT: if im reading what you have written correctly you are suggesting the system itself would have the ability to recognize something which goes against ‘Community guidelines’? IF this is the case, who decides what those guidelines are?
This question basically has been on my mind, since i saw the Black Ship and even tho one can argue it is a merchant ship, it is BLACK So Black and Merchant in conjunction … ok, going back to my topic…
The markets on TOR were offering everything and i think having the platform is one thing, but stepping out of the crowd, buying Childporn / Hitman / wholesale size drugpackages or a rocketlauncher will probably get the two people involved into a tight spot. Either the offer is done by the police or the buyer could be the police - so how do you verify?
I think in the real world this is a “recommendation” thing and so these people do not really need this marketplace. If drugs will be offered it will be most likely sizes like 1g of “Herbs” that is not of interest and probably only intercepted and seized worst case. That way Silkroad alone traded 1.2 Billion USD in 2 years … 70% drugs, 10% fake documents and rarely weapons.
I remember that 99% of the weapons on TOR Blackmarket were reportedly scams.
So regarding voting … i would like to see a frontend market that shows legal and mostly legal things that are ok for 90% mental healthy people.
Everything that is outside this can be flagged by voting or voluntarily flagged by the seller and is put in a special area for people with special interest that is hidden and can be made visible reading a disclaimer or paying a fee or or or … Like having silkroad on safex (will happen anyways) but not visible to everybody who is just looking for a job.
You can create a verified account and turn a listing account into a brand that has a face. We don’t know too much about how this will work, however; it will cost a deposit of x amount of Safex coins to do so. Ultimately the attraction to this is that your listings will have a trusted bar, something that will be affected with positive or negative feedback of the buyers. This will be a big part of the market as the higher your reputation is the more traffic will come to your products.
I think that most sinister illegals can be voted out, that tide will be controlled by Safex holders. I like your thoughts on visibility of certain listings depending on what you’re searching for.
You do make a point as of Now I VOTE to have all "illegal substances (because its peoples own business what they do with their bodies) on the network. However, I want to COMPLETELY BAN child porn and anything associated with child/adult/human trafficking.
We need to focus on ETHICS with regards to what should be on the network and not political terms and legalities associated with what the Gov. associates as lawful. Lawful & Moral are two completely different things
I somehow agree, but then people should start with craiglist and then concentrate on this exchange.
Human Trafficking is daily business on those portals … people tried to sue backpage.com a couple of years ago for selling kids age 16 and lower …
I agree on your point with lawful and moral, but where do you draw the line?
A person from a local tribe from the Trobriant Islands will probably not have a problem with 6 and 7yr olds and will use his Safex to vote for age of consent lowered to 7.
I am not discussing in favor for CP, i personally have no clue how and who applies the rules and if it should be possible in general - thats why i opted for hiding it, not deleting.
Just think about it: USA Treasury decides to buy 51% of all Safex on the market and has now the right to vote out stuff alone. So probably there will be not much left except Portaits of the current president.
If i repeat whats been said, i apologise. I havent read every response on the thread. When I read this post I see 2 reactions. Those that agree and those that dont. Now dont get me wrong, Im not a righteous debate vigilante , looking to attack anybody’s moral fibre or intention but a first summary of the 2 reactions , is to pose the motivation , for such a response. For example , I see the originator of the post probably sees this as an avenue for illegal activity and feels some moral obligation to protecting the credibility of the safex movement. The nay sayers I expect , are non emotional investors , who understand that removal of any possible customer , is indeed felt directly in the pocket . So I ask a few questions myself , for consideration by the group. Firstly … by what factor , will anonymity play , when attracting a vender , or buyer to the Chilli Marketplace.?
If … there is no screening process , by means of who we allow to represent our marketplace , will it earn a negative stigma , thus it’s appeal to the general trading arena. And if this is an economical question , will the effect of losing anonymity through screening , be outweighed by the effect of legitimate trade. These aspects alone , are good enough reason for this topic of representation to be voted on. In my opinion , its very hard to get a good reputation , and very easy to get a bad one. And this could be an argumeent for both sides as the argument for anonymity is as real as the argument of moral trading.
Thanks all
Sounds like a lot of people have to much time to waste. has any of you done anything for good, have you saved a rape victim have you fed the poor, have you done anything other than go to work and go home and eat dinner? Have you formed a neighborhood watch? I am guess nobody has done anything other than vote from their chair but once they get here they try and change the world? Start by changing the world where you live! all the comments sound like a liberal view. Leave my coin alone!
Couldn’t have said it better myself, alot of assumptions based on really messed up perspectives. Comparing only to the worst examples you could possibly give of a centralized market. No-one go fooling themselves into thinking they have any control over what they think is right or wrong for anyone else. You will be sadly mistaken in doing so. What happens in a free market between a buyer and seller is between them and them alone. Moral and legal lines will be crossed depending on where you’re geographically located. The world is a big place and it is no one persons place to dictate to anyone else what they can or can’t do in a free market.
But you understand what a brainstorming is and a forum is for, right?
So have you done anything good for this discussion? Have you done anything other than sitting down at your computer and trying to demotivate people? Have you …
Probably you were busy saving rape victims …
Since i am not a native english speaker, can you elaborate on your view, other than flaming this forum and trying to assume that we are all asocial lazy people? Of course the view stipulated here is extreme in both directions - but this is brainstorming, not more, not less - we all know nothing (like John Snow).
I only read about ‘other people’s morals’, but with an exaggerated example lots of ‘opinions & morals’ will be changed if it roles out:
What if $100 million (street value) of hard drugs are offered on the market for a price of 4 chille coins and this pushes the chille coin from $0.1 to $5 and the safex coin from $0.5 to $75. Easier said: allowing this transaction to happen would make you instantaneously multi-millionaire; lets say your safex is after the transaction worth $75 million.
Voting against this transaction suddenly has very different consequences. I’d like to guess that personal gain (greed) will take over and many, probably a big majority, will actually vote to make sure the transaction does happen. Voting will be anonymous, right?
Most of us at one stage have illegally downloaded some movie, knowing it’s stealing. “Stealing? Not me… 1 time only, I don’t sell them, the actors have enough money already, etc.” and therefore my ‘personal gain’ is justified by me… mostly (only) to myself. I think you guys and girls are getting the point.
Ok . I have another perspective from which may be seen also. In a recent interview Im sure everybody saw the CEO of JP Morgan, refer to Bitcoin and cryto currencies as fraud , and the currency of criminals , drug addicts and murderers. As part of his rant he declared , “when the government comes out and says”", its a felony to trade in Bitcoin and to do so means you’re committing a federal offence , then you’ll see whats real and what’s not". This was only his opinion but a showing of his , and the fiat controller’s hands. And considering their roles in law creation it would be sad to give them any help by means of ammunition … ie drug dealer and murderers traffic … etc just an example.
Im not assuming Im correct about any of this , just chuckin it in there to add to the topic.
I am not an attorney so I will not act as an attorney, when you discuss legal matters you can be viewed as an attorney. Unless you are a legal expert in this matter all you do is talk about it you do not have the expertise or knowledge of really what to say so everybody just loops and they start making nothing into something…I am guessing the CEO will have his attorney create a terms and conditions or disclaimer stating no illegal activity shall be done, etc…why cant you just leave it up to the CEO to take care of this?
What is the next topic? Lets limit the amount of coins one person or entity can own? What if we make a rule that if you buy a coin you must hold it for 1 year before you can trade it? where does this stop? The company handles the legal side of things.
Topics are more related to what is next with the company, dates, times, price,
Attorney? From what country? What law? This is a decentralized network. Don’t let the government put it’s hand here. Ever. Or It Will shutdown as soon as he can. When It grows and brother big players.
EDIT: I am not in that boat. This is purely an opinion that is based in decades old precedent of liability in carrying items or being the intermediary
As I said above, safex needs to keep in common carrier status otherwise any safex owner could be targeted by USA for enabling the illegal material.
What do I mean by common carrier? Think of Courier companies, or ISPs, they have common carier status because they DO NOT censor the material they transport/transfer based on any personal or caompany basis. They carry the item and the only exception allowed is personal safety (ie no explosives etc). If they were to censor the packages or data packets then they lose common carrier status and become responsible for ALL packages or data packets that they handle and if ANY are found illegal then that non-common carrier status company/person is liable to the full extent of the law. Its up to the police or customs to detect illegal material and not the common carrier status company.
So for safex owners to vote on content being traded is to open up safex owners to legal liability if any item is up for sale that is illegal in the country of the trade or where it can be sent to. The USA have shown in the past that they will attempt to get people for this very thing. EG The Pirate Bay owners, Wikileaks owner, the New Zealand guy who ran a big storage site.
Do you think that the USA will not go after safex owners if just one vile item is up for sale and the safex owners don’t vote it out. This could happen because we cannot vote on everything (billions of items).
So no do not expose safex owners to USA overreach who will attempt to arrest owners in countries like the UK, Australia, etc. safex NEEDS to keep common carrier status.
Solution
BUT DO vote on advertisers who have put up vile items for sale and ban them from listing ever again (and remove their trades obviously). You do not lose common carrier status because you refuse certain people from being customers.
Minor difference in what is being done, but a major one in our legal liability and potential to be arrested because of some scumbag getting an vile item past the “censors”.
The best list to check on is the international police list of things to pursue. This list is agreed on by most nations and represents the vile stuff that most decent folk do not want. Then ban the people who try to trade this stuff and don’t try to censor every single item put up for trade. Its easier to deal with millions of people than to attempt to censor billions of items put up for trade.
Bankers, lawyers and politicians… you always can see when they are lying: Their lips are moving.
It’s almost funny to hear the CEO of JP Morgan (Jamie Dimon) using the word ‘fraud’. I guess ‘his’ bank has recovered from the $13 billion fine it received for FRAUD in the (centralised) financial market causing the 2007/2008 global financial meltdown, which pushed, in the USA alone, 43 million people into immediate poverty.
DD has spoken on this topic before and I couldn’t agree more with him: The word “illegal” is subjective. If this is a global exchange, then we cannot run off legalities. These will vary country to country. In my opinion, this is why Safex and Chille is immensely valuable.
Am I having my fingers crossed hoping its a Silk Road/Child porn? No. Am I fully aware what a decentralized, anonymous market place entails? Yes.
So Black and Merchant in conjunction … ok, going back to my topic…