Open letter to SAFE.EXCHANGE the first SAFE Network child

I think we shouldn’t lose money. Let’s give the world what they need. Support Safe Exchange that we should build our own safe network by voting “yes” to our focusing fire on our own implementations.

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Please can you explain what your blockchain based exchange would offer in contrast to other blockchain or similar trading platforms (such as Tor websites, OpenBazaar, and others I don’t know about)?

Then can you also contrast the features and functions of your new proposal, with the original Safex proposal, assuming that SAFEnetwork does exist in the form envisaged by MaidSafe. If the envisaged SAFEnetwork functionality lacks any features which prevent you from doing certain things, please note these.

I think this information is necessary in order to be able to vote for a new proposal. As things stand I don’t understand what a Safex without SAFEnetwork offers that is not available elsewhere. I expect there must be advantages over other systems, but I don’t understand what they might be.



^^ Agreed. I look forward to voting, but would definitely like more info.


Tor websites are not autonomously supported and liability lies on serving the site

Using bitcoin means it is all public knowledge and i am aware that there is censorship on Open bazaar

The significant difference I see is simply the delivery mechanism. If you see cryptonote is offering anonymous transactions, and there are features to leverage there. I’ll show you. but I’m not going to expose the “how” until it’s done, an anonymous atomic swap marketplace is not yet available.

So you believe you have a solution to anonymous currency, combined with anonymous transacting - in other words equivalent to Safex on SAFEnetwork, but now using your own blockchain based solution. You aren’t willing to give any details about how this might be achieved.

Please correct anything as needed, elaborate etc. Thanks.

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Yes that is right even though i already hinted to something earlier. I’d rather not elaborate on how until it is coded and has been documented.

After all if this wouldn’t work maidsafe doesn’t work either ;_)… however what I’m about to do… it’s based on existing technologies it’s hard to miss. I have a nice paper with what I am going to be coding.

I’m being mega generous to include everyone on the path. I could have just as directly ignored everyone hung my hands in the air and blamed maidsafe for why we have no solutions or do we care more that a couple Scottish guys got their company done or that we have a solution to issues at hand?.


I don’t know why @dallyshalla got so mad with David I. and Nick L., but I can see here that a huge decision is been taken because of (as Daniel said) maidsafe is not a transparent company and the network development is taking too long for him.
Well, I think moving to a blockchain it’s not such a great idea. Everybody knows that the safe network has a lot of features that make it a very cheaper/safer/faster/anonimous platform than blockchain ones.

To be honest, I hope this project succeed, but the stated reasons for that change, don’t seem to be chasing the most beneficial avaliable path. I’m leaving the boat.

@vandres how are you going to evaluate that the maidsafe plan is not against the laws of physics. The decision has nothing to do with people. It has to do with technical and physical properties. Digital Ocean servers hard coded to serve you data is not real.

I don’t understand. What have to do digital ocean with safe network?
where is the project going against physics laws?

The “alpha” that maidsafe “launched” is hosted on digital ocean a closed environment.

It has become clearly obvious that so many people, including myself are easily fooled by the idea maidsafe proposes.

The decision to not depend on the Safe network may be objective, but it seems like you had a 180 degree change of attitude & quickly went from being positive about the Safe network & MaidSafe, to being negative & attacking it rather than bringing constructive criticism.

It would be good to hear why your attitude changed so much & so quickly.

While the Safe network isn’t ready yet, it’s progressing fast. It’s hard to imagine that you will be able to create something better (for the purposes of Safex), in less time, with less resources… though if you can, of course it’d be fantastic.

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Just to add to your explanation here so it doesn’t appear like this is some kind of trick; this was stated openly at launch, and is to provide a stable network for developers to get familiar with prior to the network being capable of stability whilst being run from distributed home vaults of varying quality.

Earlier tests were running from home vaults, and worked ok for a while before losing data. So the concept has been proven, and steps are being taken to fix the observed issues.


@dallyshalla If you don’t want to develop your project within safenetwork. Why did you redirected There’s very poor integrity in this desition.


@DavidMc0 you must read this line once again… worked ok for a while before losing data.

this directly and simply proves that it doesn’t work.

I don’t need to invent new things to get my idea to work because the system will be built using existing architectures that have been working so long, the difference is that they are applied in a way to expose different advantages.

But it certainly doesn’t prove that it cannot work.

Did you expect the first test of the Safe Network to operate flawlessly & require no additions / re-designed parts to be fully functional despite being complex & never tested in the wild?

The tests are a great first step that has raised some significant issues that are now being addressed.

The droplet network proves the concept can work with high quality nodes, so it’s safe to assume that once the issues caused by the network not handling low performing nodes are fixed, there will be a reliable Safe Network with vaults from home.

But if you can combine existing technologies to create an anonymous, secure, smart blockchain that is better than what’s out there, it’ll be worth doing anyway.

Can you comment on what caused your change of attitude to the Safe network beyond technicalities?


Actually this is the only reason.

@davidmc0 if you just look to the origins of the maidsafe proposition, it was going to be launched next month 3 years ago now.

The “mvp” is launched and I was eager to try, I was all set up ready to code against the environment maidsafe released. When the rug got pulled from under me (dev environment goes down), I started to investigate the maidsafe situation directly, met many maidsafecoin investors around the world, and learned that most of us (believers), are just reading and making a feed back loop that tomorrow something is going to come around. Most people who are invested have not done any thorough research, or have technical experience to understand the real issues. Even if more technically experienced people would suggest it is probably infeasible, personally I thought of them as naysayers. After a couple of months of researching, including visiting maidsafe hq (that meeting was avoided thoroughly), I could not believe what I saw. Things have not been good for a while, and it doesn’t seem like it will change. bnk to the future for 2m euro is definitely a lousy amount just to get by. don’t be surprised for more demand for capital later as well from that front.

When some event discussing the internet is formed, maidsafe is just another amongst the group trying to do something interesting and that’s fine. And seasoned engineers in the space don’t drop all of their napkins and give in to maidsafe, they heard these ideas all before. It is a marketable story, that’s about it thus far, and vapourware releases captivate the readers, it makes me wonder why not the maidsafe founders wouldnt tighten their belt and code it out how they see it themselves, 10 years of time surely is enough time to do that.

Now, I launched a proposition of my own, and it is my interest to build against the core functionality that I had described regardless how against the risk of waiting for the other company to finish theirs (I explored the idea to work on maidsafe’s plan directly instead of my own to get it moving along, but i am sure i would not trust that company with my life).

If you’ve invested in maidsafe without good research, travel and interview then im sure you’ve not been diligent enough to dig into the whole situation. And also we wouldn’t be able to discuss anything objectively. Or the investment to you is insignificant. Oh well…

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Just registered to comment on your recent redirect to your forum since I landed there anyway.

Correct me if I´m wrong, but from what I know you traveled, met in workshops even held presentations WAY BEFORE you raised funds from the SAFE community.

I have been a harsh critic on the obvious lack of timelines, I also expect further extensions of timelines, but 1. there were objective reason for the extension and you are obviously not taking them into account (raising of only 25% of what was targeted) and 2. this doesn´t justify raising money from a community and turn back on the project basically right after receiving the money. You are distracting from your own dubious behaviour by fingerpointing.

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Not at all, from my perspective I simply believed directly, I have had no insights beyond faith. I didn’t feel deceived and even tolerated such delays until the time came around when the “mvp” was nothing close to anything worth using or pursuing, that’s when everything came in question for me personally and I took off the blinders of “nothing but safe”. I am not finger pointing, I am pursuing an alternative path that is in my hands.

So some funds raised, and intent to deliver Safe Exchange is still on. If we vote to wait for maidsafe, so be it. let’s see it

@dallyshalla I referred to the argumentum ad verecundiam you made:

You researched, travelled and interviewed people LONG BEFORE you asked people from the SAFE community for money. Now you use it to disqualify criticism, which is at least as dickish as redirecting a former SAFE domain to your project instead of just canceling it or passing it over.

You feel disappointed because Maidsafe didn´t deliver as promised? Maybe you should start to consider the disappointment of people from the SAFEnetwork community who gave you their money for the development of a SAFEnet-exclusive platform only to find out that you switch from praising to mud throwing in less than 6 months? Taking money for something that is said to be impossible or needing (much) more time than promised is one thing - taking money from people and then use it for something entirely different is another.


wrong, before safex crowdsale i was promoting the idea of maidsafe, I just took for granted that maidsafe is for real; you can learn a lot from experience

even though that would be great, it doesn’t have to be the case.