SAFE Exchange vs Openbazaar

Openbazaar sure looks nice and gives us an impression, what features to have on SAFE Exchange.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vjcz5FivDE

Personally, I think SAFE Exchange will have more success than Openbazaar. If you can buy products with SAFEcoin and SEC, it’s instant & free. Also SAFE Exchange will be in the protected environment of the SAFE Network.

While Openbazaar has it’s investors, SAFE Exchange makes enable over 2 billion people to become a share holder. This just simply means that these coins will be in the hands of many more people in comparison to the venture backed OB.

Since 1% of all SEC’s will be in the hands of SAFEx’s devs we can count on further development without any financial hick ups. BTW I gave a few other examples how the SAFEx devs could still get some coins in the future.

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Nice video about OpenBazaar features.

#Blocktalk - OpenBazaar Install Party with Mike Wolf
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QKXaYxh3Csw
(It’s not that big, they had about 30min of pizza time lol)

After seeing this, many questions poped up (all for Dan):

  • Will there be a 30th may dev update? (SEC holders are getting very curious…)

  • In OpenBazaar, there are two types of deals: one that you trust the other party directly (a seller or a buyer) and one that needs a curator (multisig). In Safex, i believe that curators will be SEC owners, right? If so, how can a guy from Mongolia (SEC holder) be a referee of a local trade between two americans… How can this guy act and judge situations?

  • In OpenBazaar, curators can charge a small fee to service of referee. Initially, Safex would be free of charge, because SEC holders would be “paid” by SAFE network. Recently, Dan has spoken about building Safex before SAFE Network is implemented. So, SEC holders will charge for service also?

  • Finally, Dan, do you have a time frame for Safex launch?

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I am accumulating some work I’ve been doing together with Dimitri and Max. Some plans as well, so I will give update when there is something concise to understand.

The latest in Maidsafe should be clear indication why progress in safex had not been progressing. I am diligent so I don’t plan to fade away and I won’t need further financial help to make something that is useful to people, which I know how and will market from my own plans.

My plans have been to have something that is useful and usable within a year of starting. You could say I started February 15th. Also I want to keep to the innovations proposed by safe network and why safe exchange makes a difference.

With regard to Mongolian arbitrating on two Americans, it is a good point.

I gravitate towards building primitives first, and then placing the logic ontop of that. So in the case of Mongolian and then moderating two americans; I’m not sure yet how we can resolve it logically.

However, I also gravitate towards atomicity. Where you can not try to buy something that isn’t redeemable and verifiable. For example if you trade SAFEXCOIN for SAFEXUSD and SAFEXUSD is withdraw-able directly to your bank account from the SAFEXUSD service then in such a case there will never be a dispute to resolve unless the SAFEXUSD redeeming service doesn’t send you the fiat; in such case you should have a receipt and you must go to the court of law and the SAFEXUSD redeeming service should be registered within a jurisdiction you want to deal with.

With regard to feedback, we should give ability to make a profile as member of DBOT and allow ratings by being part of DBOT; in addition to successfully completed transactions should allow you to give feedback as well. So DBOT recognized profiles as well as general traders.

SEC holders can get an advantage in fees because they win app coins; but still it will cost to put new offers and also to make new assets.

As we are building a network software, you can “farm” the offers and assets that are stored on nodes. So some plan is to have app development incentive, and safex team will have a main interface, and SEC owners would win those app dev coins. Other teams can also build their interface here, but the coin to be farmed is always the same. SEC owners would seed this new network by receiving a small % of all the network’s coins to start making assets and trading. This is how I see it going so far… Can discuss when formalized the proposal, and the implementation has to be documented as well, simple and to the point something that can be done that satisfies the requirements and also doesn’t get too complex or over grandiose. Doing this is not the same like trying safe network because we are not trying to build some new internet, just a data network for offers very small data that is predictable (not random data) that is obfuscated and encrypted.

timeframe my goal was 1 year from starting work, and really thought it was going to be sooner when I perceived the maidsafe had it done; yet… it took a lot of studying to really get it, and as you can see 1 month before most recent maidsafe announcements i kind of got a clue just scanning all the information out in the public, maidsafe is really behind closed doors even you make many inquiries theres no way to know what they’re up to

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Ok> With regard to Mongolian arbitrating on two Americans, it is a good point.

I gravitate towards building primitives first, and then placing the logic ontop of that. So in the case of Mongolian and then moderating two americans; I’m not sure yet how we can resolve it logically.
(…)

With regard to feedback, we should give ability to make a profile as member of DBOT and allow ratings by being part of DBOT; in addition to successfully completed transactions should allow you to give feedback as well. So DBOT recognized profiles as well as general traders.

Glad you understood that way! When i first wrote it i thought it may lead to a cultural thing, like Common Law or Roman Law, how the referee understands “justice”. I was successful.

I agree with you applying inicially just logic to it. And, i believe it’s a matter of motivations…let me explain. I can see 4 probable actors, that may behave morally or not:

  • Small and large buyers;
  • Small and large sellers.

i think we are more interested in the relations between the firsts ones, big guys usually have a staff to deal with those kind of conflicts (courts that you mentioned). So:

Relations between small buyers and sellers. I can see profiles working fine for sellers, i’m sure i prefer better rated sellers when i buy stuff on e-bay. On UBER, the passenger is valuated by the driver too.

But i think we can’t trust just on it, a Referee is needed (maybe SEC holders, with incentives, of course). It would be mandatory for him/her to check any proof from the Seller (example: a ticket from mail sent to a buyer, a photo, that receipt of SAFEXUSD that u’ve mentioned) and Buyer (i think it needs to have a guarantee here - equal to the ammount purchased, in case of buyer doesn’t mantain his word, like in a pawn shop). Also, the deal needs to be limited in time (a week, for example). So, three parties are involved (Referee, Buyer and Seller) and it takes 2 to decide what to do when time frame is finished.

Nowadays crypto banks, for example, always favor the buyer (borrowers) side, not claiming a guarantee. Big sellers (lenders in a the case of a bank) can control delinquency rates, but what about small ones?

Another issue, if SEC holders work as referees, it should be considered to rent SEC tokens for people that want to share those arbitrating fees, right?

SEC holders can get an advantage in fees because they win app coins; but still it will cost to put new offers and also to make new assets.

As we are building a network software, you can “farm” the offers and assets that are stored on nodes. So some plan is to have app development incentive, and safex team will have a main interface, and SEC owners would win those app dev coins. Other teams can also build their interface here, but the coin to be farmed is always the same. SEC owners would seed this new network by receiving a small % of all the network’s coins to start making assets and trading. This is how I see it going sofar… Can discuss when formalized the proposal, and the implementation has to be documented as well, simple and to the point something that can be done that satisfies the requirements and also doesn’t get too complex or overgrandiose. Doing this is not the same like trying safe network because we are not trying to build some new internet, just a data network for offers very small data that is predictable (not random data) that is obfuscated and encrypted.

That’s blown my mind! That’s very creative! Reminds me a bit of Piercoin reward.

maidsafe is really behind closed doors even you make many inquiries theres no way to know what they’re up to

Man, if it’s your impression, imagine us outsiders! lol. To me crypto involves trust (kind of non-logical, right? lol), and you have mine, Dan.

Thanks for your considerations and time!

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